Darrol Mullany

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Coming to you from Rockingham, ipo bdo. Hey. [00:00:06] Speaker B: Hey. Hey. [00:00:07] Speaker A: So we've got Pastor Daryl here. So nice to have you. [00:00:11] Speaker B: So good to be with you guys. Yeah. [00:00:13] Speaker A: I hear that you've got a reputation with us and you've been here before. It's not the first time. So today is your lucky day because I'm driving for the first time, so it's my first time. But did you want to share with us how. Yeah. What you've already been doing with the radio station as time's gone on? [00:00:31] Speaker B: Yeah, well, we've done several interviews and we've done some afternoon interviews just about faith and things like that, so we've enjoyed doing that. And. Yeah, just. I've known tris for quite a while now, and we've watched the growth of all of this. It's been so exciting. And now to see this new venue. This is fantastic. [00:00:50] Speaker C: And I was just pointing out to Nikki earlier on that half of the walls are down to you or the gyprock that you donated. So. Yeah, I. I know. [00:01:01] Speaker A: I was thinking if these wolves could. [00:01:03] Speaker C: Talk, what they would say, that would be interesting. [00:01:07] Speaker A: I know. Yeah. So if these wolves could talk, though, because I know they're actually, like, you donated them, and so did you want to tell us a bit of, like, your journey in life and, like, I don't know, say, with these wolves? Because wolves are really important. Yeah. And what would you think the walls are important for in, say, for instance, with God? If you think about God and walls, what would you share with us? [00:01:40] Speaker B: Well, I would say, you know, I suppose thinking a little bit out of the box in walls. You know, in olden times, when they built, they had their big gates and their big walls around the cities, which really provided protection from the outside. And obviously, you know, someone like me, think about Jericho. They used to race chariots. They were huge, thick walls. And, you know, I think it's the same for us as families. You know, it's the house and the walls that really provide protection for us. And so, you know, for us, especially in faith and that, and believing God for safety and security, I think walls are essential, especially with doors in theme. [00:02:24] Speaker C: So you are the pastor of Sound City. So do you want to tell us a bit about that journey, how you came to be the pastor? [00:02:34] Speaker B: Yeah. So, without making. Trying to make a long story short, we originally came from South Africa and we came with the plans to go sheep farming. So we came over to Australia. We stayed at Cottesloe, but often on weekends, we would drive all around the countryside looking at farms to buy. But what happened is the pastor that was at Cottesloe Church was retiring. And my dad had done Bible college in that he'd never pastor the church, but he'd done Bible college. So they put him on as part of the preaching team. And then they said to him, look, pastor's gone. Would you be interested in pastoring? [00:03:14] Speaker A: Wow. [00:03:15] Speaker B: So he took over what was then Cottesloe assemblies of Goddesse. And we were there for several years. And then they sold the building and we moved down here to Kwinana. So we planted a church in Kwinana. And then a few years later, we planted in Rockingham. I probably had one of those. I was a pastor. Being a pastor's son, I probably had one of those sort of rebellious times for a little while where growing up as a pastor's son, and everybody kept telling me, you're the pastor's kid, you can't do this, you can't do that. I got to 17, and I thought I'd show people what I can do. So I sort of went wild for a little while, and then I. [00:03:53] Speaker C: You've got to do that as a teenager, though, haven't you? [00:03:55] Speaker B: Yeah. We sort of had to spread our wings and find ourselves and. But then I met my wife, Alison, and we started going out together. And so that time I wasn't at church, but so I. And she was. So she was coming to what is sound city today. And so I started coming back. And then I became the youth pastor, and then I became the assistant pastor at 28. And we've now been senior pastors there for 31 years. [00:04:24] Speaker A: Wow. [00:04:25] Speaker C: You would have seen so many changes in the area in that time as well, right? [00:04:29] Speaker B: Yeah, we've seen huge growth. Well, considering we used to live in Thorpe street. And that part of Rockingham was sort of the new part of Rockingham, which is now the old part of Rockingham. And now we've seen all the growth. You know, even we used to surf down at Secret Harbour, which was. We had a drive, a four wheel drive track. There was hardly any houses there. And so now we've seen, you know, literally rocket am and Mandra join up. And so we've seen the incredible growth through in this area. [00:04:57] Speaker A: That reminds me when I was younger, like, do you remember, like, Mandra Road? And it was. There was two, wasn't there? Like, there was Mandra Road. And then to get to Mandra, like, it was so much longer than it is these days. And then I think there was an older Mandra road. Or something like that. And now it's just. You just follow one freeway pretty much to get to here. [00:05:18] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. So when you. When you sort of come out of all the name, it's that very, very long. No, sorry, the road heading out to Mandijong. And if you turn right, that is the old man road, which sort of goes through safety bay road and then connects up to. Which is now Fletcher. No, whatever road it is. But, yeah, I. And then there's the new freeway there now. The old Manja road, which is there forever and. Terrible little road. [00:05:49] Speaker A: Yes, yes. And you'd be like, near that petrol station where that big roundabout is. And you're like, quick, let's get petrol. And, you know, now it's totally changed and they've got. It's interesting. [00:05:59] Speaker B: See so much. Yes. How big suburbia is. [00:06:03] Speaker C: What's some of the biggest changes that you've seen? Obviously, growth is a huge thing, and the freeway. But in terms of your church, what's been some of the bigger growth things. [00:06:12] Speaker B: That you've seen as far as the city goes? Well, I think Rockingham originally was a holiday village, so, you know, we've now seen it grow as a business district in that. But probably, you know, probably some of the sad, I think, of just looking at Rockingham over the past, Rockingham was almost. We seemed like Kwinana got a lot of the social welfare, Mandurah got a lot of the tourism, and it was almost like Rockingham got left out with lots of. Over the years. And so, you know, we've had lots of. We've probably got, you know, both classes of lower socioeconomical and higher ones. We've always had the industry down there, which is now all closing down. So. So initially, Rockingham and Kwinana was really sort of blue collar workers, whereas now we're getting a lot more white collar workers. I think probably the biggest significance is just how multicultural it's become, which is so exciting, especially from a faith perspective, because, you know, the Bible says we're to go into all the world and preach the gospel. We don't have to anymore. [00:07:23] Speaker C: It comes to us. [00:07:24] Speaker B: It's right at our doorstep. And even when I look, you know, you look at the secret harbour, which is a lot of English and, you know, sort of a lot of white collar workers, and you've got leader and all of that, which has got a lot of multicultural. And so Rockenham's a very interesting place and the suburbs are very, very, you know, sort of different. So, yeah, so it's sort of been an interesting place to live in. [00:07:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:48] Speaker B: So even part of our goal is as a church. So one was to plant a church in Belle diverse. Our goal still is, if Covid hadn't happened, we would have probably planted in Secret harbor by now. But then we'd also like to plant one in Wellard. But one of the things that we've realized is all. So Rockingham, Belle divers, secret harbour and, well, are very different communities. And so the church we planted in Belle divers was really aimed at young families because of the growth. [00:08:19] Speaker C: And is that the link church? [00:08:21] Speaker B: The link church, yes. [00:08:22] Speaker C: Yeah, I've seen a few Facebook posts that they've been doing. [00:08:26] Speaker B: So we handed that over to Pastor Andrew, who's doing an amazing job there in the south, Belle Divers community centre. And. But, you know, Secret harbour, I say that's probably going to be very different again, probably there is an older generation there and Wellard is very multicultural. So, yeah, so it'll be interesting as we plant that. You can't. It sort of won't be a cookie cutter churches. [00:08:53] Speaker C: But that's the exciting thing, isn't it, that you've got to kind of adapt your approach depending on who is there and what community is there. [00:09:03] Speaker B: So we've also got the possibility of. We're looking at starting a filipino church in the afternoons on a Sunday afternoon and also looking at putting a zimbabwean church maybe on a Saturday afternoon. Oh, wow. And so that would be very multicultural. [00:09:18] Speaker C: And, yeah, so we were actually just talking about the. Particularly with some of the place, some of the more charismatic kind of things that God can do sometimes it can often be in poorer areas. So if you look at some of the churches in Africa, for instance, where they don't have a lot of things going for them, but they know how to praise. [00:09:45] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I think one of the best things is to support a church in which two. We support two churches in South Africa. My wife loves worship. And so I said, oh, you got to come see it. You know, just, just the worship experience in South Africa is just out of this world. And even to the point we went to quite a large church and just the praise and worship and, you know, everybody sings and, you know, even the kids are all dancing and clapping and it's just absolutely amazing. And then they were planning a church and the pastor said, look, unfortunately, we've only got three singers there and that's all we've. And then we're just starting. So we went, oh, that's great. And these three Africans got up and started singing and it sounded like a choir. It was just huge. And they were so, you know, it almost. The way they sing is just so rhythmical. [00:10:41] Speaker C: Yeah. And this. I went to a african church in the UK, and I honestly felt like white boy, you know, because everyone else was so, like, into the dancing. They were just. There was no inhibitions. There was no. Nothing holding them back. They were, like, right there with God. And I was just standing there going, I just feel so out of myself right now. But it's so inspiring when you're part of that, you know, you're like, you guys are so free. It's amazing what they. What they do. [00:11:10] Speaker B: It's true. White men can't dance. [00:11:12] Speaker C: Right. I was just so stiff. I was like, I really feel English right now. Yeah. [00:11:17] Speaker B: It's such a powerful thing. It's, you know, just the beauty of God, I think, you know, just God is so creative. And wouldn't it be boring if we were all the same? Even the Filipinos, you know, they so much different again. And I think because of Catholicism, they've got that they've had their gods understanding for a long time, so they. When they become christian, they very committed, and their worship again is just like. It's just a whole different level. But you're right. You know, I've been to both places. I've preached in Africa, I've preached in the Philippines, and over there, they don't have Medicare and they don't have everything we've got. So, you know, for us Aussies, if we get sick, you know, our first port of call is probably the chemist. The second one's the doctor. If that doesn't work, we go to emergency. If that doesn't work, we. Then, you know, please pray for me. Whereas in Africa, in the Philippines, that's the person they go to, the money or the. So they just come to God. And so the miracles you see there are just amazing. [00:12:26] Speaker C: I love the stories of how people, like, walk, like, ten k's to go to church. And in our western mindset, we're like, oh, it's raining, so I'm not going to church today. Like, we put so much in the way, you know, and for them, like, they will go well over the odds just to go to church. Yeah, it's. [00:12:48] Speaker B: I preached that in Africa. The guy, the pastor said to me, said, oh, we have a thousand people in attendance. And so I thought, oh, so when church started, we were probably lucky if there was 100 people. Here we go. And as we're worshiping, the church just starts growing. The choir was growing, the musicians were growing, people were just coming in, you know, and I'm sort of thinking, oh, you know, you know, that would never happen in Australia. We start on time and everyone's there. Anyway, after church, the pastor took me for a drive, and we drove for miles, and we went to all these places. Places. And he said, this is where a lot of people walk from every Sunday morning, and they walk all the way to church, have church, and then they walk all the way home. And so I was, you know, felt so bad for thinking bad of these people who were late for church. Wow. If that was us in Australia, we probably wouldn't even walk there, let alone if it was raining. So. [00:13:51] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's just a different, like, first for God, I think. And like I was saying before that, when. When you're in despair, that's when you first. But, like, really, we should be first in whether we have or have not. Really. [00:14:06] Speaker B: Yeah. One of the interesting things in South Africa, because of this, so there's so lack of work. One of the interesting miracles, a lot of times people get saved, and the first thing happens is they find work. Okay? So a lot of the times, you see the church that's, you know, that's been in a place of poverty, but all of a sudden, God starts blessing, and they're learning biblical principles and everything, so. And, yeah, all of a sudden, see the family starting to prosper, and that's. They never got lots of money, but all of a sudden they got work, and they would have put food on the table. And a lot of the times now, they've, you know, they be able to get education, which when you're just in poverty, you can't do that. So, you know, you're seeing that change in people, and it is happening in the church, which is exciting, sort of. Yeah. So I love that. Cool. [00:15:04] Speaker C: What kind of things have you got in the pipeline at Sound City? [00:15:10] Speaker B: Oh, lots of things. Well, one of the things that we would love to do, it's been on our heart again, Covid sort of slowed a whole lot of things down, but we would love to end up having a hub in sound city or outside of sound city church. So in rock and am. But where we can do a lot of. So my heart's very much is, you know, you give a man a fish, you feed them for a day, teach them how to fish, you feed them for a lifetime. So my heart's very much for empowering people. And so we want to look at not only doing which we do a lot of biblical and a lot of christians in, but we just want to do a lot more community. You know, whether it's marriage, whether it's parenting. We're looking at running bullying programs. We're looking at running a CAHPS program, which is really just a financial budgeting program, but just to help people. You know, the reality of life today is we've probably got more people, some people, a lot of people earning good money but still in huge financial stress. You know, back in the good old days when I was young, so much younger than today, you know, we used to buy a small little house and we would sort of pay it and we'd buy an old car and, you know, we weren't, it was sort of like, let's build up to that. [00:16:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:29] Speaker B: You know, nowadays people want to go out. They have the latest car, the latest house, the latest furniture. And unfortunately, we live in a society with, you know, credit cards and everything. So, you know, as soon as interest rates and that went up, people became under so much stress. And, you know, in church, often what happens is usually people are quite generous, but we find that people are so with so much credit stress and under so much pressure, they can't afford to be generous. And sometimes they're just struggling to survive. And, you know, that has all sorts of run on implications with marriage and all of that. And so, you know, so we'd love to be able to do that parenting programs, financial programs, marriage thing just to help people in life. [00:17:13] Speaker A: And so is that them coming to you face to face? [00:17:19] Speaker B: Yes, but that's why we'd love to have it as a, we'd love to end up with a hub somewhere like where we rent some offices like these. [00:17:26] Speaker C: We'll talk about that later. [00:17:28] Speaker B: Yes, separate to the church. We can run those because sometimes people feel, oh, you know, I'm not going to go to the church for better, for worse. And we appreciate that, but, you know, we really do want to be able to help and do that in the future and do it well. And it's. And again, I think just life. People are struggling and probably grew up. I was a passionate, I used to love going to seminars and whatever they were, you know, even business seminars. You guys talk about business. I used to go to all these business seminars and I'd sit there and listen and they were secular seminars, and I'm listening to these guys speaking. I'm going, they're just taking biblical principles and putting them into practice and they prospering. And, you know, often the church isn't doing that. And I think, wow, this is crazy. But, you know, it's the same, you know, whether it was financial seminars, whether it was parenting, and I thought, wow, I wish I'd done that ten years ago. You know, there's so many things in life where we do for better or for worse, I do, not a whole lot of premarriage counselling, but often I do. And I say to young people, you know, the reality of life, we usually go one of two ways. So we'll often, the only models we've had is our parents. So we'll either go, I love the way they did that or I hate the way they did that. And we often act or respond and do one or the other. So we'll adopt the things that we love, we'll reject the things we don't love. But that's all we knew. And sometimes you just learn some new ways or new principles. [00:19:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:08] Speaker B: And you go, wow, should I known that? [00:19:11] Speaker A: That's awesome. [00:19:12] Speaker B: 1015 years ago. [00:19:13] Speaker C: It's interesting you say that, though, because a lot of, like, counseling psychology books that I've read will often have quotes from the Bible and a lot of the stuff, things like what you focus on becomes your reality, you know, which is straight out of the Bible, but it's now pretty much, you know, count psychology 101. And so there's so many of those things where they've taken, like you said, biblical principles and now it's considered to be mainstream psychology. [00:19:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And I mean, the Bible is a very interesting book and it's got lots of stuff in it, but it has got a lot of practical wisdom. And so, you know, that's the thing that I love. And I obviously, being a pastor, that's a, you know, I can see the practical wisdom in it. And I had a young guy once, and, you know, we were talking about wisdom and I was saying how, you know, if you just look to the Bible and, you know, it's got some good practical wisdom, he goes, no, I look to really, really dumb people and think, look at the way they're doing it. I'm never going to do it that way. And hopefully I'll be wise. Some people go around about it another way. But, but I think the Bible has a lot of practical wisdom for life in it, you know, and it is lots of stories. And again, you know, somebody once said, it's like, you know, every day I get the choice, who do I want to be mentored by? Do I want to be mentored by Jesus? Do I want to be mentored by Paul. Do I want to be mentored by David? You know, King David? And so we can learn so much from that in every area of life. And, yeah, you know, the church is not just a spiritual entity. And I often say, you know, Sunday church is like our shop front window, but from Monday to Friday, we are very much running like a business. And, you know, there's a whole lot of things we've got to do with governance and boards and insurances. And so, you know, in a sense, we're running a small business, but we're also trying to bring hope and life to people. And so, yeah, I couldn't think of a better business to be in. [00:21:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:19] Speaker C: And it's, I guess because it's, you know, your faith that drives you as well, and that's like virtually everything you do as part of the church is faith driven. So that would be pretty cool. [00:21:28] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, it's, again, you know, when everything's going well in life for people, nobody thinks they need God often it's when there's a crisis. And, you know, we've been through stuff as well. And I personally, I think, I don't know how people cope without God or some sort of faith, some sort of hope, when people who just sort of feel, they hear and there's no rhyme or reason to it. So when they hit a crisis, and you can say this nicely, but you see why the suicide rate's so high and hopelessness and depression is so high, because if you don't have something and the Bible talks about hope like an anchor and being in Rockingham, you know, you see these boats in a storm, that's all that's holding them firm. And, you know, we've got that faith. And so, yeah, it's not a, it's, it's not a bad, you know, I think it's a great thing to have, having some sort of hope in life and faith in life. [00:22:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I like the hub idea because so there is lots of businesses and organizations out there, and so with their funding or with what they're concentrating on, they concentrate on helping people in certain ways. So they might help them with, say, paying rent, they might help them with paying a utility bill, they might help them with paying Rego, just depends. Everyone's concentrating on their own funding and where it's allocated. And so being a point of center, I kind of encourage people to go to certain organizations to plug them into where they need to go because, like, sometimes, often there's just so much pressure and there's like, you know, maybe 20 things that they're thinking, this is overwhelming. And when you share the load, a problem shared is a problem halved. My granddad used to sing that, and so it's like when you do that, then it's coming together and then there is hope, and they're like, I'm not just doing this on my own, you know? And so having the hub would be really awesome because it's just a point of call where they can go to and then you can then help them with other, you know, places to refer them to or even just helping them in the church. And it really is like you say, it's not just about that. I'm sure you've got people, you know, phoning people saying, hey, how are you? Do you want some prayer? That kind of thing. I think people think church can just be, you go on Sunday, you know, either good or bad. It's not really like that. We're never going to be good enough, you know, you know, not perfect. We're not perfect with him. And so I love the idea that you're going to do that because then you can reach more people and you also just can have that ripple effect because it's just about talking to just one person and then them talking to somebody else and then them giving them hope. And you don't know who's, sometimes people are suicidal and they'll message me or call me and it's in the middle of the night or randomly, so you never know. And so because you're helping these people, then you don't know the ripple effect of, like, the other people that they're helping. You know, it's really empowering that you want to empower people and you're doing it from a faith point of view to bring the kingdom of God, like, you know, as a collaborative approach. [00:24:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And I find, you know, you don't have to talk to too many people to find lots of people are struggling in all sorts of areas today. So it's wonderful to be able to help and to be able to do that. And as I said before, when I was 17 and being a rat bag and running around, I would have never imagined now, and I say this nicely, but being 31 years in church and often I visit others or we have meetings. And so in 31 years, there's been a lot of people doing loops and going from church. So there's not a lot of people I don't know. We've obviously got a lot of new people moving into the area but, you know, I just often, I'll look around, you know, see people that I haven't seen for ages, or maybe at one time they came and they're not, hey, wow. We played a part of that, you know, great little story was a little boy walking down the beach and after a big storm, and there was all these starfish on the shore, and he was going along, throwing these starfish back in the water, and this old, grumpy old man, you know, goes, and he goes, do you really think, because he was thousands of starfish, do you really think you're going to make a difference? And he picks one up and he goes, I'm going to make a difference to this one. So, you know, again, I say that we can't. We might not be able to save the whole world, but we can certainly reach people in our world and, you know, hopefully to be help and to be that hope and life. But, yeah, it's a tough world at the moment out there, so. Crazy world. [00:26:26] Speaker C: I mean, one thing that gets me is the housing crisis at the moment, right? So there's the dual food crisis, the cost of living and the housing crisis, but the people that are struggling with housing at the moment are like a couple who are both working, and that's like, I can't get my head around that. Right. Before, we talked about homelessness, and there was often the kind of people that we thought were homeless were people maybe who have drug issues, right? Or people who maybe ex offenders who couldn't live in closed walls. Claustrophobic people, maybe, or people with mental health issues. And so there was this kind of idea that this is what homelessness looked like. And now house became available for rent on our street. 35 applicants. I've never seen so many cars in my life, right? And so that's 34 families that aren't going to get their house. And so now couples who are both working, who are bringing good money in, aren't able to get what should be a basic human right. And it's just crazy that, well, the. [00:27:34] Speaker B: Cost of housing is just gone through the roof. But I think one of the issues we face here in Wa is that housing is so expensive over east, a lot of people are selling up and coming here, and everything's supply and demand, and we just don't have the house. I mean, the other thing, and I'm all for immigration, we're bringing in a million people a year, and already we're struggling with housing and supply and demand and all of that. And so we've got all of those things building up. We've got food shortages and supplies. [00:28:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:10] Speaker B: You know, and so it has that huge ripple effect. Yeah. To the point where we don't have toilet paper in the shop. [00:28:18] Speaker C: That was a crazy time, but it. [00:28:21] Speaker B: Is, it's, you know, it is. We're seeing that flow on and I don't, you know, that's. That's not an easy fix, so I'm not sure. And so the best we can do is help people as much as we can help people through it. I'm always a firm believer that things will get better, but we are going through, I think, through that cycle. [00:28:41] Speaker C: It'll be interesting to see what happens in order to get better, though, because inflation seems to have been the spark. The more they put interest rates up, then that puts mortgages up, that then puts rent up. Some people find themselves not being able to afford to pay the rent, but they have. The politicians have a love affair with inflation, so, you know, they want to keep that low. Yeah. So it's high at the moment, but it'd be interesting to see how we get out of this because it's not just wa. It's international. Like, the UK are going through a real crisis at the moment as well. And so, yeah, it has to be like a. I don't know, like an international. [00:29:27] Speaker B: Something's got to change, hasn't it? Yes. As I heard somebody say the other day, the tragedy is when you've got two couples working and they still can't afford to buy their own house, there's an issue, and I don't always understand economics in that, and I wish I did, but, yeah, interest rates, which has just, you know, ever since that's gone up, it's just affected petrol, which affects transport, which affects food, which affects housing, which affects everything. [00:30:02] Speaker C: It's a snowball thing, isn't it? [00:30:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, as you say, even with rentals, now that, you know, my son and daughter and son in law wanted to rent a house and it's just, you know, even, even them both working just to rent house, huge, big chunk, massive chunk of your income every week. So when people are struggling. [00:30:26] Speaker C: So do you think that this period in our history is a golden opportunity to reach out to God? Like when we've seen revivals before, it's usually in a time of recession, time of poverty. So would this be an opportunity to grow? [00:30:47] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. And from my own personal experience and mixing with people in the world and business people, I find more and more people now are probably interested in, you know, wanting to know more about God, but wanting to have something, you know, I mean, a lot of people are going, is this the end of the world? It's just everything's crazy, what's going on. And, you know, we often hear that, you know, things are going bad in biblical proportions, but it's almost like the world is going, hey, you know, maybe this whole God thing is, that's why I always encourage people, you know, I think faith is probably one of the best things you can investigate. And that's all the Bible really requires of us or asks of us. You know, we're not there trying to sign people up or make people come to church. But like King David said, hey, taste and see that God's good, you know, check it out. And I don't know too many people that when they, you know, got a heart to look that they don't discover, hey, this is something that helps my life. And I think even the who now is saying, hey, you know, there's, we recognize that with all of sicknesses and everything, people that have faith usually have a greater chance of recovery than people without faith. [00:32:07] Speaker C: And it's also about looking beyond yourself. Like, if you're atheistic, then, you know, you believe that your values come from you while, you know, for us, our faith is in a God who is not only in, you know, the small things, but is the founder of the whole universe, you know, and that, I don't know, take some getting your head round. How can you be in the small things but in the big things as well? [00:32:35] Speaker B: I think the good thing about Christianity is that it's probably the one thing that gets us to look outside of ourselves and look beyond ourselves. And, you know, the christian message is it's not about you. Hey, there's other people and you know how to. And I think when sometimes we get so, you know, just consumed with what's happening in our world. And I think sometimes you look out and you go, hey, I'm not the only one going through this, or, hey, there's others. And all of a sudden you move from, how do I cope? To help others cope. And you'd understand that and what you're doing and helping so many people. And with the radio, you know, all of a sudden you have a, it's a beyond yourself, you know, the God kind of love, I always say, is other people centered. And so it does sometimes, and just in the world we are, you know, people do become very self centered and, you know, wanting to compete with the Joneses and, you know, it becomes very inward yeah, whereas Christianity says, hey, if there is something bigger than us out there and there's others out there, then that we can reach out and help. And so I think it does just change people's perspective as well, gives people that sort of sense of excitement of helping others and, yeah, so I know just recently as well with, you know, some of the opportunities as far as the church goes, you know, we've had, there's lots of opportunities for mentoring and helping kids that are struggling in schools. I've sent an email the other day about providing mentoring for the prisoners and, you know, people who are in prison and so that's a tough know, people for whatever reason have made mistakes and so, you know, they need help as well and they need hope. So, yeah, the opportunities I think are growing all the time and, yeah, so it's like everything I say to people, I don't know how people can be bored in this world because there's so. [00:34:33] Speaker C: Much, it's lack of imagination, I think, isn't it? But one thing that I love about the Bible is that the characters in the stories, they're not amazing people. They're people who are going through trauma, who were going through terrible and some of them made really terrible decisions. But God then turns things around. So it kind of gives people hope that, you know, if you've got mental health issues or if you're lonely or, you know, if you all this other stuff is happening, there are people in the Bible you can relate to. [00:35:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think like the old saying, they were just ordinary people who did extraordinary things, ordinary things through them. So, yeah, yeah, and that is, and I think just having that faith beyond yourself and I think even with like AA and that, you know, they've recognized, although it's sort of based on christian principles, it's not always a christian program, but they've just recognized that if people have a faith in a higher being or a faith beyond, there's far more chance of recovery. And, you know, I think that's the thing with Christianity. It does give us a faith and a hope and something we can anchor ourselves into. [00:35:48] Speaker A: That's a good point because after this we've got people that do have, you know, share their stories about having problems with our co addictions and those kinds of addictions that we're hoping. So if you wanted to listen to that between six and nine, you can do that. But yeah, no, it's true because that, like we were just saying that before about addictions and so, you know, people, but we were talking about something different about the radio addiction, right? Yeah. [00:36:18] Speaker B: Healthy addiction, isn't it? [00:36:20] Speaker A: Yeah, but, um. But, um. But, yeah, no, sorry, I'm serious. No, um. Yes. So. But, you know, people that are going through addictions, I mean, you know, because it's really just. They can just be going through it. It's just like something that they're finding is helping them at that time, and then they can be introduced or, you know, do some maybe cognitive behavior therapy or whatever they want to do in regards to changing the way that they're doing, you know, their habits or their routines that they're doing. But it's definitely with regards to God, Jesus, and faith, it's something that, with addictions, whatever that is, you can actually use it to then improve your life, and then you can help people along the way, because it's always about a mess in a message, in the mess. And it is about using our faith then to help other people, isn't it? To be able to. Because you can't just say, hey, don't do this if you really don't understand, really, why they are doing that. So it's like, if you go, you said you were 17, you're a bit cheeky, I would say. But you then can then use that story and understand 17 year olds that do want to rebel, and then you can help them with that, you know, going through that. Yeah, I think it's important that you're able, like, yeah. And I'm thankful that you've had that situation. So my nan, she normally says she's, you know, had a really good life, so she doesn't really understand a lot about what, you know, some of us are going through. So it's good that you're able to be able to help them with that. [00:38:02] Speaker B: Yeah. I think one of those words of wisdom in the Bible, it says, without a vision, people perish. And I find a lot of times today when people come to me that are struggling, I love to ask them, you know, what's your vision? Because when people are in a crisis or in a mess, they really just become very insulated and closed in, and they're not seeing anything beyond tomorrow. And I think, you know, again, just encouraging people to dream, you know, hey, there is going to be. Tomorrow could be better, and there is hope for next week, and you never know what it's going to be like. And just trying to get people to have a vision for the future and, you know, that's bigger than them and bigger where they're at. I think things do, you know, sometimes we've probably all been through crisis, is that we thought, there's no way I'm getting out of this one. And then you look and go, oh, what was all the fuss? Yeah, but, you know, things do improve. Things change, or we learn, or we. [00:38:59] Speaker C: Improve, or you get skills that you. [00:39:01] Speaker A: Can deal with, or you meet new people. [00:39:03] Speaker C: New people, yeah. [00:39:05] Speaker A: Go through different things. Yeah, yeah. [00:39:08] Speaker B: But I've just read a book, one of Cs Lewis's book, the problem pain, which has revolutionized my whole thinking because I've almost seen pain as an negative thing. And, you know, something you try and avoid. We don't want pain. Yeah, but, you know, he puts it in his 1930s type of, you know, english speech, but he really says pain is meant to say there's a problem. And what often happens is we don't. If we don't deal with the problem, it just gets worse and the pain gets worse. But it's meant to be like, you know, if I cut myself and it hurts, oh, okay. If I don't put a band aid and I don't fix it and put something on, it's gonna get worse. And it's like that, whether it's with marriage, whether it's with finances. It's not meant to be something to destroy us. It's meant to go, hang on, maybe I need to learn something new. Maybe I need to change something I'm doing. [00:40:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:04] Speaker B: You know which one of those Bible verses we all love to hate is James? He says, you know, can't it all joy when you face trials of many kinds of. Because it's the testing of your faith that develops patience. How do you count a joy when you're making triumph? But I realize if we understand the purpose of pain, it's actually meant to be there to go, hang on, something's wrong. How do I fix it? And if I don't fix it, it's going to get worse. And so, yeah, that's been revolutionary for me. [00:40:35] Speaker C: It changes your concept of pain, doesn't it? [00:40:38] Speaker B: Really change my whole perception of the way, you know, when pain comes. But I think by human nature, if I can say this, we are religious in many ways that we sometimes just go through life and we just get stuck in a rut and we just stay in that rut and we don't do anything. I think we live in the most privileged generation there is today, where even with Mister Google and, you know, the resources we have, there's really nothing you can't learn. And I'm even amazed, you know, I remember looking in the newspaper, that was a while ago. But, you know, with Tafe, you know, you can learn. They've got hundreds of courses and half. [00:41:16] Speaker C: Of them are free as well. It's like. [00:41:20] Speaker B: You can learn anything you want. You know, you got a bookstore and there's books for parenting and finances and budgeting and marriage and communication, you know, excuse, you know, these days to stay in that place. But by nature, we often just tend to do that, don't we? We don't always know the way out. So if we can help people do that, I think that's something special. [00:41:47] Speaker A: It definitely is. I normally say I had to get used to pain being a good thing because. Yeah. And also being uncomfortable because otherwise you won't get growth. So sometimes we've just got to retrain our brain that sometimes pain or uncomfortable feelings are okay to do because then, you know, you're growing. [00:42:11] Speaker C: That's it. Yeah. [00:42:12] Speaker B: It needs to be a trigger to saying, is this something I need to know, something I need to change, something I need to learn? Otherwise, we do stay in that cycle of pain. That was the purpose of it sometimes, you know. [00:42:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:25] Speaker C: And think about all the things you missed out on as well. Like, you know, sometimes we get into avoidance. We know we want to avoid the pain, but that's where the growth happens. [00:42:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:42:34] Speaker C: So we're missing out on so much. [00:42:37] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And as I used to go to all these seminars and you'd learn new skills and I go, I wish I'd learned that ten years ago when I first got married. [00:42:48] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:42:49] Speaker B: The interesting thing, you know, talking about marriage courses and parenting courses, one of the things that always frustrates me as a pastor because I look at our church and I think, oh, you know, we really need to run a parenting course. There's parents struggling and when we run them, the people that come are the ones that seem to be good parents. This is insane. And we were doing, I'm getting cross, or we run a marriage course and it's all what seemingly are the good marriages. [00:43:18] Speaker C: But isn't that what makes them good, though? They want to learn, right? They learn skills like the bad parents or the Badlandhouse relationships, think that they're great and they can't do any. Like, there's no improvement. So that's just, that's the kind of paradox. [00:43:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Life, we need to be learning and growing and. [00:43:37] Speaker C: Yeah, all the time. [00:43:39] Speaker B: And if we're not, we will stay in eruptence. [00:43:42] Speaker C: And I think as well, with, particularly with parenting courses, that often people won't go because they think that somehow they're failing or they can be judged. [00:43:50] Speaker A: That's right. [00:43:50] Speaker B: You know. [00:43:52] Speaker C: Yeah, I learned, I did some courses with keys, and I learned so much, and it changed my relationship with me and my daughter because, like, she had an issue with sleeping. She, she wouldn't go to sleep until really late, and I would get kind of frustrated and, you know, I'd be kind of, oh, why don't you just go to sleep? You know? And they were like, basically, she's got all these big emotions that she can't deal with, and if we come alongside her and help her to cope with those emotions, then we treat her like she needs our support rather than, you know, she's an order kid. [00:44:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:26] Speaker C: And that changed the way that I looked at Amelia. And, you know, I think that was such a good concept to learn. [00:44:33] Speaker A: There's actually. So I teach on this anyway, and so, like, there was one, there was one thing, though, that I will things that I do learn, because even though I teach on it, I still want to learn. And it's just your wording as well. So basically, instead of saying, you need to go to sleep, so I have four children, right? So, like, they all need to go to sleep at some point, at some point of view, at some point in time. So basically, though, it's, instead of saying, okay, now you need to go to sleep, I had to say, okay, now it's, you know, let's lay down. Because when you're trying to go to sleep and we know, like, well, entrepreneur brains, we normally just want, you know, think about 03:00 in the morning, like, hey, let's do this, and let's do that. And it's like, no, you need to go to sleep. And so when I'm telling myself, no, you need to go to sleep, I get all like, it's just like, an uncomfortable feeling because you're just laying there. So then someone, I'm not sure who it was, but I do lots of research. So someone who did say, just change your wording and say, like, it's time to lay down, or instead of saying, you need to go to sleep, because it's like, you don't just go, I'm going to, well, you know, some people can just quickly go to sleep and then they're just asleep, but some people, it takes a while for them to go to sleep because, you know, and then you need to think about the REM sleep and then, you know, which is when you can go into your deep sleep. So. But, yeah, just changing that wording of, you know, you just learning new things. Yeah, yeah. [00:45:56] Speaker B: We ran a marriage course. [00:45:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:58] Speaker B: Last year, at the end of last year, and we sort of did it, so. Oh, you know, we're going to be helping all these people. We learn something new, you know. [00:46:08] Speaker A: That's awesome. Yeah. Important. [00:46:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I think so. [00:46:15] Speaker C: We should, you know, with so much more that we still have to learn. It's, you know, it's a work in progress, isn't it? Right, where there's no perfect person apart from Jesus. And we're all in that transition stage, you know, hopefully going in the right direction. That's all we can do, isn't it? [00:46:30] Speaker B: I don't know if it's true or not. They say we only use 10% of our brains. So much more we could. [00:46:35] Speaker C: Well, I like to say we only use 10% of our brain. The other 80% is dormant if we. [00:46:43] Speaker B: Don'T constantly doing it. Yeah. Cool. [00:46:47] Speaker C: Okay, so I think we might just wrap it up there because we've got a 05:15 so how do people get involved in sound city? [00:46:58] Speaker B: Well, we have a simple thing called next steps. And so we basically say everyone has a next step. So whether you're a brand new or even if you're a non Christian or a brand new Christian Christian and want to get involved or want to help, want to serve, we've got a next step and we've got a plan for that. Okay, so, yeah, so we sort of have a pathway for people. And so when is that like a. [00:47:20] Speaker C: Course that they do or. [00:47:22] Speaker B: It's more of a. It's a broad guideline so that we have. So for all our visitors or new people, we want to, in a sense, make them, you know, be part of help, to be part of the family. Those that are a part of the family, you know, I always tell them. Tell people from our kids, you know, we always said to our kids, this ain't a hotel. We all help around here. We all get involved, and that's the same for God's family. And then we do, you know, our study. So it's sort of like we've got these steps you can take how you grow. And so hopefully we could take anybody from an atheist to a pastor. We've got a, you know, steps, you think? And we don't run. My heart's always been for the church, in a sense. So we don't run. We run Bible training centers with lots of courses and lots of, as opposed to, I think we've got some really good Bible colleges out there. So people come to me and say, hey, I really feel God's wanting me to be a pastor or do it study at a deeper level. Hey, we will encourage him to do that and go there, but hopefully we can take people from. [00:48:28] Speaker A: I had my. So there was a Ku Klux Klan member, and it was John Cleary. And my nan got me to come and listen to him. And part of me was thinking, okay, if I just stop this, this, this, then I should maybe give my life to God, right? But it is actually not about that. Because really, we can't kind of sometimes stop certain things without God's help and God's love. And it's like with your church, sometimes people maybe think we have to look a certain way or be a certain way. So if I said to you, okay, no, no, no, I can't come because, you know, I need to fix this, or I'm looking like this or not like this, but, you know, or I can't be bothered getting dressed, and I just don't want to go. What would you say to those type of people? [00:49:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, again, I would say Christianity is the joy of discovery. When I first met Alison. And the cliche is, you know, Christianity is not religion, it's a relationship. You know, I knew I wanted to be with her. I knew I wanted to spend time, and, you know, she took me for my warts and all, but we. I didn't know her. We've been married 40 years learning about her. [00:49:41] Speaker A: Congratulations. [00:49:42] Speaker B: But, you know, Christianity, God doesn't have come to me and be perfect. He says, come to me and learn. And so I would say to people, wherever you're at, just come as you are, because God accepts us just as we are, and you don't have to be perfect. And I've got so many people go, Pastor Darrell, if I walk into your church, lightning will strike. You're the perfect candidate, and lightning won't strike a. But you come and you learn, and it's relationship, and as you learn, you grow and you discover more, and we do end up changing, as I said, you know, when I was 17, I would have never imagined I've been doing what I'm doing today and helping the people I've helped today. Yeah, but it's like everything in life, and that's why we've called it next steps, because sometimes it is just baby steps and it is just putting 1ft in front of the other and as you take the next step and the next step and. [00:50:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So were you thinking, like, Facebook plugins? And address and that kind of thing. [00:50:50] Speaker C: I like what you said. [00:50:53] Speaker A: So it's like, how do we find you? Right? [00:50:55] Speaker C: That's right. Yeah. How are you on social? [00:50:57] Speaker B: Yeah, we're on social media. Sound city church. We're on website City church, so. [00:51:04] Speaker A: Yep. [00:51:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's. [00:51:06] Speaker C: And can they kind of just drop in or is there what kind of hours you open? [00:51:12] Speaker B: So we're open. So we're not open. We have Mondays off, but we're open Tuesday to Friday. There's usually always somebody there. Otherwise, as I say, Sundays really is our shop window and where the majority of people are. And we run. We've got programs right from crash right through to teenagers. So we used to run big youth groups, and we found often, you know, parents running and a lot for a lot of parents, Friday night, they just. So we tend to run youth on during church, so we realize parents are there, kids are there. So we sort of try and run really lots of, say, fun programs, but also to help the kids grow. [00:52:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Because sometimes it can be about just having that teenage child just being plugged into, you know, a place just so that they can then build the friendship. And then that way they're around people that are, you know, a good. A good kind of, because we, you know, we care about where our children are being and who they're hanging around with and what they're learning from. And a lot of them are getting advice from their actual peers, really. There was a study out about that, so it really is. Come to church, bring your children. They'll be looked after. And it's just. [00:52:41] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. But we're there. Yeah. [00:52:44] Speaker C: And you've got the art classes there as well. That's on a Friday, is it? [00:52:48] Speaker B: Yeah. So they. They come and use our buildings, which is fantastic. And I love being there. And again, getting to know people and that people from all sort of walks of life, they're struggling and whether it's mental handicaps or physical handicaps, and they come down and they learn art and they've got a. [00:53:07] Speaker A: Okay, that's awesome. Yeah, that's really, um. That's really a good show. [00:53:14] Speaker B: A couple of weeks ago. Yeah. So that's really cool. [00:53:18] Speaker A: Wow. [00:53:19] Speaker C: And one other thing that I wanted to touch on, we obviously, we mentioned before that we had Chris on last week and he mentioned his connection with you. And so you're now. Is it the state leader? [00:53:30] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:53:32] Speaker B: State leader for Wa. Yes, for full gospel churches. [00:53:36] Speaker C: So how to get involved in that, that's. [00:53:40] Speaker B: Well, several years ago, we joined with the full gospel churches. And at the time, we didn't have a whole lot of churches, so they didn't have a lot of choices. So there was really, there was another church up in the hills, and so full gospel was very big in the east coast, but it wasn't big in Wa. And so I joined and then they asked me if I would look after Wa. And so we've had in the last two years now. Now where I've got probably, I've got 38 pastors that are now looking after, caring for, I think it's about 18 churches. But in that we've got churches, we've got chaplains, we've got missionaries, we've got evangelist people also that are, you know, ministries outside of the church. So we've got like, bridges of peace and all that. So that have all come under. One of the things that I've loved about the full gospel church is that we've really a group that will ordain people for ministry, not just you don't, you know, if you don't have a church, you can't be really quite inclusive of who's part. So we've got messianic churches. We've got. So, yeah, so we've seen quite rapid growth over the last two years. [00:54:52] Speaker A: That sounds amazing. How do we find out more about that? [00:54:56] Speaker B: Yeah, well, again, you can go to full gospel Australia on the camp site, or you can come and talk to me. So. [00:55:04] Speaker A: Wow. [00:55:04] Speaker B: And the thing that I've loved about it is their heart is for people, you know, pastors. I think sometimes pastoring is a tough gig as well. And so, yeah, so they really, their pastoral care is really their priority. So as much as we want to see churches grow and we want to see communities help, at the end of the day, we recognize if the pastors are healthy, the church will be healthy. And, you know, some people passes and have been doing, I suppose, like any job, but, you know, they, they pouring their heart out to everybody else, not themselves. Moms don't always look after themselves and become burned out, so. [00:55:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:55:45] Speaker B: Just love on them and look after them. [00:55:47] Speaker A: Wow. [00:55:49] Speaker C: That'S an awesome thing to end the interview on. [00:55:52] Speaker A: I know, right? [00:55:53] Speaker C: Really cool. [00:55:53] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:55:55] Speaker B: Well, thank you so much for having me. [00:55:59] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. Yeah, because you've been in a few months ago, I think, with Alan, so you've seen it before, but then obviously we've got more change happening. [00:56:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:08] Speaker C: Loving, exciting stuff. [00:56:10] Speaker B: You guys are doing an amazing thing inside. [00:56:13] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:56:17] Speaker B: Entrepreneurial spirit, I love. Yeah, absolutely. [00:56:20] Speaker C: Well, there's two of us now who got the entrepreneurial spirit. So the exciting stuff. Yeah. [00:56:28] Speaker B: Oh, have a great weekend, and you'll enjoy the rest of the week. [00:56:32] Speaker C: You too. [00:56:33] Speaker A: And my engine. Cheers. [00:56:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:35] Speaker C: You're the driving now, so. [00:56:37] Speaker A: Okay, so we are going with. Oh, Michael Bolton said I loved you. Oh, but I lied. [00:56:48] Speaker B: That's mean. [00:56:51] Speaker A: Never got Keith Evan. Days go by on a happy night. But, yes. Thank you very much for joining us. We really appreciate it and enjoy the music.